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A noob's guide to Networking! i.e. all of you

#1 User is offline   Darkcoder

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Posted 28 May 2007 - 08:36 AM

So I'm getting tired of joining UK servers when some noob says ###### like 'kick the high pingers' 'Reset your PC'

I've had quite a bit of experience with multiplayer game networking and I've read lots of stuff about the way Source handles things so I'd like to educate you lot.

Ping?what is ping?

Ping is the time it takes for either the client to send a packet to the server and get a reply or vice versa. A packet is the name given to a segment of network data, these packets usually have a header containing the destination IP(server or client) the IP it came from(to identify which user sent it) and various other things like a checksum but those aren't important for this.

When you hold TAB you can view your ping, though for some reason it says latency, which is a measurement of how long it takes a packet to reach the destination without a reply, But it's actually ping.


OMG he's making me lag!

Often I get accused of 'making people lag' due to having either 200 - 300 Ping. This is not true and you should slap anyone who says this. The only time this is true is when playing a very old game that is poorly programmed. In modern games a high ping player cannot affect your game speed or your ping due to the fact that networking code is asynchronous to the main game, this means that the game physics, weapons etc on the server are still running even if your packets take a year to arrive.


Kick the high pingers?

It depends how you define high ping, on the US servers I get 200 ping and 300 to the UK, while these are fairly high I will explain why having these pings doesn't change much.

Using 300 ping as the extreme example, this means that if I press W on my client it simulates me moving forward instantly, however the server still has to wait 150ms before it will detect I press W. Now the advantage to me is that I can potentially see you before you can see me, due to the fact that my movements are simulated on my side, so if the other player has 0 ping(on LAN) they will have to wait 150ms before they will see me jump down, pop round the corner etc. The downside however is that I cannot escape as fast. let's say I'm looking over a box and someone runs in front, if I crouch on my screen I will be impossible to hit, however he will have 150ms to headshot me as my crouch button hasn't be detected by the server yet so he can easily kill me.

Another thing to remember is that the server caches 1000ms worth of entity data, entities are everything in the world from players, bricks(in Breakfloor) and any physics entity. This is where the tick count comes in, a 100tick server will store this entity snapshot every 10ms for the default 1000ms total, so that's 100 snapshots / tick. Other servers use 66 tick or some other number depending on accuracy required. These snapshots are used to determine if you've hit something, or walked into a physics entity. for example if I'm camping with an AWP and looking down a small hallway and someone runs past me, on my screen I will shoot them and they should be dead. However due to having 300ping my bullet will have to wait 150ms before it's simulated on the server. Obviously currently on the server the player has long ran past this hallway and my shot will obviously miss, so it looks at my ping and checks to see if I hit the player by looking at the nearest snapshot which using 100 tick is either the 15th or 16th snapshot. Of course if the enemy player also has 300ping they will die 300ms after I initially fired the bullet, this is the reason why many people say BS you couldn't have shot me etc etc.


Can I reduce my ping?

Ping increases mainly based on distance to the destination host / client, because with distance you have more hops. Hops are the name given to servers owned by your ISP and others that simply relay your data to the destination, as I'm in Japan when connecting to a UK server my packets must go through around 5-10 hops before it reaches the server. Now there isn't a lot you can do about this as most of the hop servers will be out of your control so other than a change of ISP(which may not improve anything as ISPs usually lease lines from a main provider) you cannot affect your base Ping. There are other local things that may affect your ping however. Things such as an overloaded firewall, because games like CSS have quite a lot of packet flow, so if your PC is already under a lot of strain(CPU usage) your firewall may be slowing you down. The way to fix this is either disable your firewall which probably isn't the best idea or get a router which will very likely come with a hardware one.

I've often heard people telling me to type cl_cmdrate 0-1 to improve my ping, this is very very very false and you should kick anyone who does this from the server, this command merely limits your outbound packets per second to your designated level, so if I set it to 1 then I'm only sending one packet per second to the server for movement, what this means is that visually to other players I will look very very laggy and this is a form of exploit as you're very hard to hit. People think this reduces ping however it doesn't! your ping stays the same it only fools the client ping system to think you have a lower ping however I'm not totally sure why this happens, maybe the timestamps get changed due to using this command. The default is cl_cmdrate is 10 and you can set it from 10-100 without problems. 100 will give you and others a more smooth and fair gameplay experience(I use 100).


Edit By Alex:
1) Nice post, must have taken a while so kudos
2) You didn't mention it but by typing "net_graph 3" into console you get a nice panel displaying all the details of your connection.. In fact I'm going to go screen shot it and make a new post :P
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#2 User is offline   Phobia

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Posted 28 May 2007 - 08:57 AM

View PostDarkcoder, on May 28 2007, 08:36 AM, said:

Now the advantage to me is that I can potentially see you before you can see me, due to the fact that my movements are simulated on my side, so if the other player has 0 ping(on LAN) they will have to wait 150ms before they will see me jump down, pop round the corner etc. The downside however is that I cannot escape as fast. let's say I'm looking over a box and someone runs in front, if I crouch on my screen I will be impossible to hit, however he will have 150ms to headshot me as my crouch button hasn't be detected by the server yet so he can easily kill me.


And thats why no one can kill you..
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#3 User is offline   Darkcoder

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Posted 28 May 2007 - 09:38 AM

View PostPhob!a, on May 28 2007, 08:57 AM, said:

And thats why no one can kill you..


No, that will be featured in my noob's guide to not suck at Breakfloor ;)
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#4 User is offline   Artinium

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Posted 28 May 2007 - 11:33 AM

What I find really hard is that you always have a "ping" of over 250 on UK server yet you seem to run fine without no "lag". And shoot well aswell, but when any UK player goes to US with 110 ping there is always lag as in player jolting and shooting affected.
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#5 User is offline   Night Hawk

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Posted 28 May 2007 - 11:51 AM

i resent being called a noob

Quote

OMG he's making me lag!

Often I get accused of 'making people lag' due to having either 200 - 300 Ping. This is not true and you should slap anyone who says this. The only time this is true is when playing a very old game that is poorly programmed.


cough halo cough

hmm this is intresting
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#6 User is offline   Nurf

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Posted 28 May 2007 - 12:12 PM

hey

since you know so much about networking, got a question :)

pc my and laptop are next to eachother

i got a ADSL modem on the table

its got 4 exits for 4 pcs and 1 wireless

my laptops on wireless and my pc is on cable

wen i plug in a cable (like in the pc) for the laptop (so i connect it to the modem via my cable) i cant get a connection

i realy want to get a cable connection cuz my downloads are all done on the pc( with is a slower one) cuz its internet
download speed is much higher then when i do it wireless

please help :)


greets
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#7 User is offline   Snowman

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Posted 28 May 2007 - 02:05 PM

View PostNight Hawk, on May 28 2007, 07:51 AM, said:

cough halo cough

hmm this is intresting

i love halo! don't make fun of it cause its old!
:P
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#8 User is offline   Hawk

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Posted 28 May 2007 - 03:22 PM

Pinned!

A lot of people do not know any of this. Even I learned something new.
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#9 User is offline   Magnum

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Posted 28 May 2007 - 03:25 PM

OMG, your signature is REALLY freekin' annoying Wasti!!! :P

I think I'm getting blind, just like Mental... :P
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#10 User is offline   Nurf

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Posted 28 May 2007 - 03:29 PM

View PostHawk, on May 28 2007, 05:22 PM, said:

Pinned!

A lot of people do not know any of this. Even I learned something new.

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

turn it off! turn it ooffff :blink:
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#11 User is offline   Darkcoder

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Posted 28 May 2007 - 07:47 PM

View PostNurf, on May 28 2007, 12:12 PM, said:

hey

since you know so much about networking, got a question :)

pc my and laptop are next to eachother

i got a ADSL modem on the table

its got 4 exits for 4 pcs and 1 wireless

my laptops on wireless and my pc is on cable

wen i plug in a cable (like in the pc) for the laptop (so i connect it to the modem via my cable) i cant get a connection

i realy want to get a cable connection cuz my downloads are all done on the pc( with is a slower one) cuz its internet
download speed is much higher then when i do it wireless

please help :)
greets



Well my knowledge is more toward the software side, I don't have a laptop so I cant say but have you checked your network settings? Windows has a bunch of network setup wizzards that usually don't work, you could give them a try.

Quote

Pinned!

A lot of people do not know any of this. Even I learned something new.


Thanks for the pin!


Quote

What I find really hard is that you always have a "ping" of over 250 on UK server yet you seem to run fine without no "lag". And shoot well aswell, but when any UK player goes to US with 110 ping there is always lag as in player jolting and shooting affected.


The jolting effect you mentioned is cased by the player's position data not matching the servers' and thus the server sends a correctional packet to the client telling them to update their position. This can be caused by the server running slow due to either exceedingly high bandwidth usage so it misses some client data about moving, shooting etc or high CPU usage which can also result in the same effects. The other possibility is packet loss on the client side, where the packets they send about movement, shooting etc is lost and the server never gets them; similar to the server this can be caused by high bandwidth usage (downloading files / torrenting in the background can really affect this).
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#12 User is offline   Alex

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Posted 29 May 2007 - 01:38 AM

Net_graph.

Enable by typing "net_graph x" in console where x is a number between 1 and 3

Attached Image

1)FPS: What it sounds like, the number of frames per second your gfx card is generating

2)Ping: The total time taken to make a trip from your pc to the server and back

3)Ticks:
Top - How many times per second the server sends player positions to you
Bottom - How many times per second your computer sends your position to the server.

4)Data: how many kb per second of data your sending and receiving

5)Packets: Total TCP/IP packets coming in and going out

Loss
Occasionaly in the darkness of the net, a little packet gets lost between jumps. When this happens it is registered as a loss. You cant control it as it exists simply because your connection sucks.

Choke
Basically this is when you send a packet containing data about your player to the server and for some reason it doesn't get there. This can be caused if your trying to send more packets per second than the server will allow, or because the server is suffering network or CPU lag. What ever the cause, the result is that some of your actions will not register server side e.g. shots, grenades etc.
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#13 User is offline   Nurf

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Posted 29 May 2007 - 07:46 PM

View PostAlex, on May 29 2007, 03:38 AM, said:

Net_graph.

Enable by typing "net_graph x" in console where x is a number between 1 and 3

Attachment netgraph.png

1)FPS: What it sounds like, the number of frames per second your gfx card is generating

2)Ping: The total time taken to make a trip from your pc to the server and back

3)Ticks:
Top - How many times per second the server sends player positions to you
Bottom - How many times per second your computer sends your position to the server.

4)Data: how many kb per second of data your sending and receiving

5)Packets: Total TCP/IP packets coming in and going out

Loss
Occasionaly in the darkness of the net, a little packet gets lost between jumps. When this happens it is registered as a loss. You cant control it as it exists simply because your connection sucks.

Choke
Basically this is when you send a packet containing data about your player to the server and for some reason it doesn't get there. This can be caused if your trying to send more packets per second than the server will allow, or because the server is suffering network or CPU lag. What ever the cause, the result is that some of your actions will not register server side e.g. shots, grenades etc.

you know like everything :lol:
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#14 User is offline   Darkcoder

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Posted 29 May 2007 - 07:52 PM

Hmm, I was just playing with Eagleye and noticed while attempting to kill him he was teleporting like crazy around me(though of course I owned him) and when looking at his ping it displayed as 5, this obviously means that he ran cl_cmdrate 1, which as stated above gives a very unfair advantage and I think it should be an auto kick on any of the WF servers, he and many others thought / think that the command lowers you ping, you cannot magically lower your ping by running some command people, unless you fake lag in the first place so don't use it!
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#15 User is offline   Vladplaya

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Posted 29 May 2007 - 07:57 PM

Its fair to use only when your ping jumps really high and then goes down after few seconds (lag spikes). I hated it on the WF servers, you still get kicked for high ping even after your ping is back to 50, but you had ping of 300 like 10 seconds ago.
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#16 User is offline   Nurf

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Posted 29 May 2007 - 08:27 PM

View PostVladplaya, on May 29 2007, 09:57 PM, said:

Its fair to use only when your ping jumps really high and then goes down after few seconds (lag spikes). I hated it on the WF servers, you still get kicked for high ping even after your ping is back to 50, but you had ping of 300 like 10 seconds ago.

when i was on wireless laptop and about 2 walls further i had like 500 ping when i joined, then it dropped to 50 and got kicked for the high ping, so vlads right :)
someone advised me to use the command but i'm glad i didnt ;)
jsut moved closer (next to) the modem :)
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#17 User is offline   Waffle Factor

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Posted 29 May 2007 - 11:11 PM

Yeah if i see someone with 1 ping, I'll warn em a couple times then just take care of them.
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#18 User is offline   Darkcoder

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Posted 30 May 2007 - 11:13 AM

View PostVladplaya, on May 29 2007, 07:57 PM, said:

Its fair to use only when your ping jumps really high and then goes down after few seconds (lag spikes). I hated it on the WF servers, you still get kicked for high ping even after your ping is back to 50, but you had ping of 300 like 10 seconds ago.


Actually it isn't, this 'bug' is merely clientside only, the server still displays the correct ping or at least mani can detect this and you'll get kicked even if you display as having 5 ping, try it. Join a server which you get 500 ping on and use the command, I guarantee that as long as they have a ping kick that you'll get kicked.
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#19 User is offline   Panda

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Posted 30 May 2007 - 05:43 PM

View PostArtinium, on May 28 2007, 07:33 AM, said:

What I find really hard is that you always have a "ping" of over 250 on UK server yet you seem to run fine without no "lag". And shoot well aswell, but when any UK player goes to US with 110 ping there is always lag as in player jolting and shooting affected.


Things don't really care about your ping when it comes to lag. You lag cause you live farther from the server box in which the server is located at =) That's your main problem with US servers. You're too far so it's slow to connect and other stuff.
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#20 User is offline   Hasselbery

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Posted 30 May 2007 - 09:57 PM

Damn your good at this stuff! Must have taken long time!
My english suck but understod a little and it was good :D
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#21 User is offline   Jack

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Posted 30 May 2007 - 11:35 PM

ping != latency
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#22 User is offline   Darkcoder

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Posted 31 May 2007 - 06:16 AM

View PostJack, on May 30 2007, 11:35 PM, said:

ping != latency


True, but in networking Latency should by average be almost exactly half your ping.

Quote

Things don't really care about your ping when it comes to lag. You lag cause you live farther from the server box in which the server is located at =) That's your main problem with US servers. You're too far so it's slow to connect and other stuff.


As said above visual player lag is due to packet flow and not ping, and also as said above I don't visually lag on US or UK servers however other users with half my ping can.
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#23 User is offline   ToXikO

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Posted 23 June 2007 - 11:59 AM

nice darkcoder you japaneese are pretty clever ey? ;)
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#24 User is offline   Darkcoder

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Posted 25 June 2007 - 09:38 PM

Just to clear one thing up, I am British. Just because I live in Japan does not force me to instantly become Japanese. Did none of you guess from my amazing spelling and grammar?
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#25 User is offline   7.62 nato

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Posted 25 June 2007 - 09:40 PM

oooo that could be taken two ways lol
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#26 User is offline   InTeRpOl

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Posted 03 July 2007 - 08:25 PM

i always go on the UK servers and all the uk players say "kick the american hes making me lag", now i know that they are wrong and its just their crappy comp.
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#27 User is offline   TheJester?

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Posted 11 August 2007 - 09:34 PM

View PostInTeRpOl, on Jul 3 2007, 10:25 PM, said:

i always go on the UK servers and all the uk players say "kick the american hes making me lag", now i know that they are wrong and its just their crappy comp.

here is what you going to answer them then xD:

It's not the americans , its your ######ty computer! Kick out your computer and buy a new one ;)


:P
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#28 User is offline   DM master

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Yo yo yo um my interests.. well mainly i just either play on my pc or play on my xbox 360 but i cant do the second one because its ######ing abck at ######ing microsoft for ######ing repair (sorry if ur not supposed 2 swear) um i like hanging ouot wiht my mates and stuff the only good this about school and i like 2 play with my legend dogs.

Posted 18 September 2007 - 09:12 PM

well i get these really ######ty lag spikes sometimes where my ping gose up 2 like 500-700 and it pisses me off do u know why these happen dad says its cause of trafic on the line.

i also get these times when i cant do anything because i get autokick for like everything cause my ping fluctuates from 50-500 and back every few seconds wat causes this?
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#29 User is offline   Darkcoder

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Posted 18 September 2007 - 09:26 PM

It can be many things. From my experience an Anti-Virus scan running during gameplay(automated scan) can cause added ping, so make sure that's not the problem. Other things local to your PC that could be the cause are downloading large files and especially downloading torrents or generally anything that uses a P2P architecture.

Also do you have other computers on your network? I.e. your parent's PC or any sibling's etc, they too could be slowing your network down via downloading files / torrents and the like. If your Internet connection isn't that fast then downloading files from another computer can easily start to overflow your bandwidth and cause added lag.

Also are you using a wireless Internet connection? It's possible your connection is fairly distant to the modem/router and causes lag/packet loss or someone could be 'jacking into' your wi-fi and stealing bandwidth, it could be many things. Luckily it's quite easy to check the former as you can make sure no one else is using the net and see if this problem occurs. The latter is more unlikely but your modem/router should be able to display a list of online MAC addresses from which you can compare with the ones in your network, bet to look at the manual for info on how to do this.
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#30 User is offline   DM master

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Yo yo yo um my interests.. well mainly i just either play on my pc or play on my xbox 360 but i cant do the second one because its ######ing abck at ######ing microsoft for ######ing repair (sorry if ur not supposed 2 swear) um i like hanging ouot wiht my mates and stuff the only good this about school and i like 2 play with my legend dogs.

Posted 18 September 2007 - 09:31 PM

im not useing wireless games run fine when running a virus scan ebcause this pc is pretty new 2.4 duel core (it dose work both at same time CS:S and virus scan) um it could be other comuters but i doubt it because our internet it pretty fast 2m per second (not sure if that actully is that fast but still) and the other pc that is on pretty much constantly is dads laptop but this sometimes happens when hes in london with it. or mabe BT just dont like me :D
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